Former NBA stars Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson have made quite the impact in the podcasting space.
While athlete podcasts are all the rage these days, with Travis and Jason Kelce recently inking a $100 million deal for their podcast, New Heights, that wasn’t always the case just a few years ago when Barnes and Jackson started All The Smoke in October of 2019.
Although Barnes and Jackson never had aspirations or defined objectives of becoming notable figures in the media space once their playing career ended, that’s exactly what happened. The two former NBA stars have a strong social media audience for their podcast, with two million followers combined across YouTube and Instagram. They recently hosted presidential candidate, Kamala Harris, for an episode and notably featured the late great Kobe Bryant in his last interview before his passing.
The 44-year-old Barnes — who leads a lot of the business operations behind the scenes of All The Smoke — explains how the podcast came together.
“At the time, I didn't really know what a podcast was,” Barnes explains in a one-on-one interview. “Stak (Jackson) and I we were both working for ESPN and FOX back and forth between those networks and we received a lot of positive feedback. We met up at my place in the Bay Area watching the game one day and I was just like, 'Hey, let's do a podcast.' He was like, 'What's a podcast? I told him, 'I don't really know, but I think it's more lax and you might be able to have a drink.' He kind of started laughing and said, "Hey I'm in.'
Barnes then details that he met Showtime Sports digital programming executive Brian Dailey through Eric Newman, who produced the “The Resurgence: DeMarcus Cousins” documentary. From there, the deal quickly came together with Showtime Sports.
“It sounds crazy how easily it came together when I really didn't know what I was doing,” says Barnes. “But that's how it came together. They took a big chance on us and we were able to create something special. Our first season we got 'Sports Podcast of the Year,' put our foot down in the sports podcast space and it's almost like we're the OG's of the game now. Because at the time, it was Knuckleheads — featuring former NBA stars Darius Miles and Quentin Richardson — and there was really no other sports podcasts. Now, everywhere you turn, there's a new sports podcast coming out. I love the growth of the space.”
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Barnes once again hammers home that he and Jackson really didn’t know what they were doing when the started the podcast on Oct. 8, 2019.
“When we started out, we really didn't know what we were doing or what it was and we were just free-styling,” says Barnes.
Jackson himself admits that he didn’t see the podcast developing into the well-oiled machine that it is today.
“No, not at all,” Jackson says when asked if he envisioned becoming a podcasting giant. “There's a lot of things in your life you never predicted. Even the George Floyd stuff, I never predicted to be in that space. I knew that I had a hunger to do something on television after basketball, whether it was sports or acting, whether it was anything.
“But the opportunity came — Rachel Nichols gave me the opportunity — to work with her on the show on ESPN and it just spearheaded from there. We came up with the idea — All The Smoke — we didn't know it was going to blow up the way that it did. But we met all of the right people that helped us bring this together and it's just been growing.”
To commemorate the five-year anniversary of the podcast, Barnes and Jackson are releasing a book titled exactly how their podcast is framed, All The Smoke from Simon & Schuster on Tuesday, Oct. 8. The book features quotes from notable athletes and celebrities who have appeared on the podcast such as Bryant, Shaquille O’Neal, Kevin Garnett, The Game and Ice Cube.
The two are currently on a book tour which will feature an interactive fan experience with a live taping of All The Smoke in cities such as New York and Philadelphia (Oct. 9). They previously held a live taping in Chicago back in June.
The pair have been close friends since they teamed up to lead the “We Believe” 2006-2007 Golden State Warriors squad. That team is best known for upsetting the No. 1-seeded Dallas Mavericks, becoming just the third No. 8 seed in NBA history to beat a No. 1 seed. Barnes signed with the Warriors just prior to the start of the season while Jackson was traded to the team from the Indiana Pacers in the middle of the year.
“I knew him from competing against him, but I didn't really know him,” says Barnes. “I wouldn't even call him a friend at that point, it was just he was in the league, I was in the league. As soon as he got to the team, he and I hit it off instantly. We both like to partake in cannabis, that was kind of the common ground outside of basketball, we just started hanging out and getting to know each other better.”
Barnes explains how the passing of his mother at the start of the 2007-08 season is when the two really became “brothers.”
“From teammates to friends to brothers and I think really when our friendship became brothers was after that season, my mom died at the very beginning of the next season,” says Barnes. “Even though the organization was great, Stak went out of his way daily to text me, call me, come by the house, watch TV with me, bring me food, come smoke with me and just kind of be that shoulder for me as I was trying to grieve through the loss of my mom. Obviously my mom and his mom connected — they were really close. So it was almost like a real family affair and that's when we went from teammates to brothers.”
Jackson agrees with Barnes’ sentiment that their “brotherhood” grew following the untimely passing of Barnes’ mother.
“When I got there (to Golden State), I was a guy that was looking to re-brand myself,” explains Jackson following his trade to the Warriors in 2007. “But I wasn't looking to change. And Matt was the guy who accepted me for who I was. Our mothers clicked immediately, I think that made our brotherhood grow and then his mother passed so quick. I was there for him the whole time and I made it a point to be there for him.
“That's how our relationship built. I think a lot of times when you have relationships built off real-life issues, they're more genuine than if you just have a relationship playing basketball together. That was a tough experience for him and I was glad I was able to be there for him and I think our relationship has been solid ever since — regardless of it was doing a podcast or anything. We have a brotherhood beyond any show or any type of business, we just love each other that type of way.”
While the All The Smoke podcast is a success in itself, the popularity of the podcast has led to creation of the All The Smoke Productions. The production company was founded in January of 2024 by Barnes and Dailey after the closure of Showtime Sports last December. The production company features a number of podcasts and partnerships under its umbrella, including The 25/10 Show featuring former NFL stars LeSean McCoy and DeSean Jackson, All The Smoke Fight — a division dedicated to the fight game — and a partnership with The LeBatard Show featuring veteran radio show host and TV personality Dan LeBatard.
It’s all a part of the process of transforming the brand from a podcast entity into a full-fledged media production company.
“It's going to be a slow burn, but we want to be a full-fledged production/media company,” explains Barnes. “We're also on the political side, we do some political content, we're in talks for the golf space, I'm bringing in more talent for people in the MMA space, we sold our first show to Amazon, we're picking up two amazing documentaries that I don't really want to speak on right now, because I don't want to jinx it, but they're going to be really big and I'm excited about them.
The goal was obviously to get off the ground with what we knew, which was building podcasts and the ecosystem we've created, but our goal is to be a full-fledged company, production house, studio and media company.”
Jackson wants to continue to grow the All The Smoke Fight division as one of his long-term objectives while making their production company the “Black Barstool Sports.”
“Long-term goals, big plans in the fight space,” says Jackson. “Just trying to take the blueprint that Showtime made and try to build on that and make it bigger and better. With All The Smoke and our production company, we want to be the Black Barstool Sports. We want to be able to do things like that — build our brand.
“We have a lot of different angles. Brian Dailey is adding something new to our production company by the minute. We're just growing, we just want to be the best in every aspect of our production company. I think we're heading to that, because we all have a certain respect for each other, and when it's family like that, things can't help but work.”
While All The Smoke Productions continues to do that and expand with its talent and production roster, one thing that is undeniable is that the media space is transforming. Prior to recent years, it was the media — mostly writers and TV personalities who had no experience playing pro sports — that dictated the narrative and the perception of athletes.
That is now no longer the case, as Barnes points out — which is part of the reason he entered the media world, particularly the podcasting space.
“Media wasn't in the plans in my day from '02 to '17, there was kind of a weird relationship with media and players and the narrative always being spun,” explains Barnes. “I wasn't really a fan, I had some people that I liked and respected in the space, but the overall sports media, I wasn't a fan. I've seen what they've done to me and my teammates over the years. How stories were told and how they were written or told on these platforms.
“I was kind of against the whole thing. but a friend of mine told me, ‘If you don't like it, why don't you help change it? Get into it.’” I don't feel like you need those machines (ESPN, FOX, etc.) anymore to get your point across, to go viral, or to really freely speak your mind.”
